Ep. 248: Dogman and Bigfoot Investigations in Oklahoma: Red Dirt Cryptid Investigations

Brandon: Welcome back to Ten Floyd Tales, I'm your host Brandon.

Brandon: Tonight we're joined by my guests Brian and Coleman. Thanks for coming on here and talking with me guys. Thanks for having us on. Would you guys like to let the audience know a little bit about yourself before we dive into it?

Brian: Coleman, why don't you go first?

Coleman: Yeah, my name is Coleman Atchley, I'm a field investigator for Red Dirt Cryptids. I've been a field investigator with Red Dirt since 2022, late 2022. I believe it was around November that year I went on my first expedition with Brian and Eric and the other guys at Red Dirt. Before that I did some documentary stuff, some video podcasts, interviews. And kind of been my main focus going forward is focusing on, like I said, the documentaries, filming, other things here and there. But yeah, that's about it.

Brandon: Awesome.

Brian: My name is Brian Terrell, I started Red Dirt Cryptids. Officially, I guess you'd say we started an internet presence back in 2017. And I kind of consider myself a flesh and bone type field investigator. Although here in the last year or so we've run into some things that made me question some of what I guess you could call my core beliefs. I'm still trying to process a lot of that stuff, but primarily I like to do field investigations. However, as a group we do eyewitness interviews, we have a whole bunch of public case files that are from the Kansas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas area that is available to the public. We maintain that free database. We run a YouTube channel where we take people along on our expeditions. And basically we just we try to have like a social media platform so that if people need to reach out, they can. And we unfortunately there is a pretty big need with the community because a lot of people have encounters with these things and they don't know who to turn to.

Brandon: I feel like a lot of people out there see things and a lot of the time they don't even ever want to mention it because they don't even understand what it was in the first place. So when that happens, they don't even know who to talk to. And if they do talk to someone, usually they're afraid of what someone's going to think about it.

Brian: Yes, exactly. And, you know, we're from Oklahoma. And as a general rule, we're kind of like the most conservative state, I think, in the union. And, you know, it's like people here are super, super conservative. They're very worried about what their neighbors are going to think about them. They're worried about their reputation. They're scared that it's going to affect their business or, you know, and or, you know, affect them at their at their workplace. I know I was for a long time until I kind of got kicked out of the closet by one of the ladies at work. So but I was pretty mad about it at the time. But, you know, looking back on it now, I'm kind of glad it happened. So but it's Oklahoma is a tough state. You know how they say that, like, you know, nine out of every ten eyewitness encounters go unreported. I think that number is probably more than double that in Oklahoma because there's such a stigma about talking about this stuff here.

Brandon: Yeah, I agree with that. Do you think I'm actually friends with someone that's from Oklahoma and I've only been through Oklahoma twice. I've drove through it. I've never actually spent time there. It's just me driving through the state. But how often do you hear of reports from your local area?

Brian: Well, I mean, it depends on whether you're looking looking for it or not. I mean, I probably have somebody reach out to me once or twice a month. But if I was to say, go to the Facebook pages and stuff and start looking, I mean, I'd be willing to say that four or five people a month in Oklahoma are having encounters very easily. And we have it's not just Bigfoot. It's like a whole diversity of weird stuff. You know, we've got a strong Native American presence here. We've got people reporting little people encounters. We've got in fact, I had a little person encounter come in just the other day. You know, dear woman Sasquatch dog man and this whole plethora of pale crawler skin walker type creatures, which, you know, I mean, a lot of them have a lot of the same characteristics. So it's like what what box do you do you put those in? You know, I don't even know. But we even get our occasional flying cryptid encounter down here. So I guess it kind of goes along with the fact that we're we probably have some of the most diverse terrain in Oklahoma or in the country. So a little bit of everything down here. Yeah.

Brandon: Well, if you would like to share some of the experiences you guys have had, I don't care which one of you goes first, but love to hear about it.

Brian: Coleman, why don't you start out and talk about what happened at 7A?

Coleman: The encounter Brian's talking about. This was back in, correct me if I'm wrong, Brian. I think it was early in twenty three. I want to say January, if I'm not mistaken, twenty twenty three. We were at one of our locations that we call 7A. It's in southeastern Oklahoma, which obviously anyone who's done any research at all into basketball activity in Oklahoma knows. Southeast Oklahoma, the big hotspot, which should kind of sightings a lot of good habitat there. So so, of course, you know, we're one of the areas that we like to research when we get out there and do our field research. And so we were at this location for about three days, I want to say, and we found we found a footprint at one point. You know, we we we were staying up late each night to listen, make sure we could hear anything. The first two nights, I mean, we were hearing a lot of known animal noises, lots of coyotes, barred owls, just the typical stuff, you know. And then we finally got to that final night and we were really excited and we were really determined. You know, we really want to our final night out here for the time being. And we really want to, you know, hopefully after something or after some evidence or, you know, what have you. And but that night, I mean, it was just dead quiet. I mean, it was quiet. I didn't hear a single coyote in here, single barred owl. And keep in mind, like I said before that, I mean, we're hearing stuff every single night and we were just weren't hearing nothing. And like I said, we were pretty adamant we were staying up late. I think we're getting close to midnight, one in the morning. You know, we were staying up, looking through our thermals, keeping quiet. That's a big thing we like to do is we're in an area and doing our research is to, you know, not talk always, you know, not to talk so much. I feel like sometimes, you know, we've had discussions about this. Sometimes a lot of people go into an area and they'll just talk the whole time and that's fine. But, you know, a lot of times you may be missing out on stuff, you know, stuff that may be going on around you or near you. If you're not paying attention, if you're not quiet, just listening, you know, it's easy to miss stuff. And so we try to implement that a lot when we go to areas to just sometimes just be quiet for an hour or two hours, you know, and just, you know, listen in. So we were doing that, looking through our thermals and just not seeing anything, not hearing anything. and just not seeing anything, not hearing anything. And I think it was Brian who said, let's just go. I have my tent set up. Brian and Eric, they had their vehicles that they were sleeping in. Brian made the call, hey, let's go and go to sleep and go in your tent, whatever, and get your vehicle and try to stay up a little bit longer and see if that draws them in. And so I get in my tent. I get set up. I'm laying down. I'm just staying up. I think about 30 minutes went by after that. And I'm getting pretty tired. I'm trying not to fall asleep. And then I finally hear these footsteps. At first, I thought it was Brian or Eric. I thought one of them had to go out to use the restroom or something. But I knew they would have said something, you know, or whatever, because this thing was approaching my tent. And I just hear the... And it's not even trying to be quiet. I mean, it's just crunch. There's a bunch of leaf litter on the ground. Crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch. I mean, just these clear, distinct, loud bipedal sounds like someone's walking up to my tent. And it stops. And I'm sitting there and I'm listening. And I'm just laying on the cot and just being dead silent. I'm holding my breath. I don't want... I'm just listening. And then I hear... I had a little fisherman's bench. It's just like a little stool pretty much out there that was by the campfire. And my tent was relatively close to near the campfire and near the gravel that was surrounding the campfire. And then next thing you know, I hear my stool dragging across the rocks in the gravel by the campfire. And at that point, I get really excited. I'm like, oh my gosh, they're here. And my phone's on like 5%. And I start... I always laugh about this. And I start texting Brian. I'm like... I'm like... And I was telling him beforehand, like, you know, I was texting Brian. When I started hearing the footsteps on Brian, I hear something moving. And then as soon as I heard the bench move, I'm like, oh, cats, Brian, like, they're by my tent right now. They just move my bench or move my stool. And Brian's like, oh, quit texting me. He's like, if you keep... He's like, you keep lighting up my phone. My phone keeps getting like lighting up every time I get a message, but the service out there is pretty bad. So I wasn't really getting his messages. And so I'm thinking Brian's like asleep the whole time and not seeing him. I'm like, he's got to get up because Brian, his vehicle is right there. He's like, got the perfect line of sight where he could see. So that's why I'm texting Brian. So I want him to look and see if he can see this thing. And unfortunately, my phone dies. And I'm like, crap. And so I keep listening to it. And I hear maybe like what sound like it could have been like a little footstep or movement, but then I just, I don't hear anything else. I don't hear it really walk away really, or anything like that. And then finally I'm just like, no, I just, I fell asleep, you know, because it was kind of, honestly, it was kind of scary. It's like, okay, it's right there by my tent. Like if this is what I think it could be, this thing can do some dance, you know, if it wanted to. I'm pretty helpless right now. And so the next morning I get up and I get on my tent and I go to Brian and I'm like, and we start talking about it. And he starts telling me, he was like, dude, I, this thing, whatever it was, again, this is after my phone died, it, what happened was Brian was telling me, and maybe Brian, if you want to recount this a little bit, you can, but from what I remember Brian telling me, uh, Brian and Eric's vehicles were side by side, parallel with each other. And whatever this thing was, it had walked around my tent. Brian said he could see the silhouette of it near the campfire, not close enough to the campfire to where he could see a full, you know, a hundred percent visual on it, but he could see the sort of silhouette as the flames kind of moved around my tent. Apparently it was taller than my tent as well. And, um, it had moved around my tent and walked in between Eric and Brian's vehicles and Eric, or excuse me, Brian, could hear this thing move and step the same type of footsteps. I was hearing clear, distinct, loud footsteps walking on the gravel in between Brian and Eric's vehicles. And so at that point, we're like, we have to look for prints, you know, we need to see if we could find this thing left any tracks or anything. And so we go out and, um, I think I remember correctly, we found a possible impression in the mud, but what was most impressive there was this really steep kind of tall berm near our campsite. And in the center of this berm, we found a really big, deep impression, just one in the center of this berm. And this berm is probably, I don't know, I mean, it was a tall berm. I mean, it was probably, I don't know, 10 feet, maybe a little bit higher. I don't know, but I mean, it was a, I mean, a tall berm and whatever this thing was stepped on the berm. And then there was another impression up on top of the berm. So a person, you know, how tall and steep this thing was would have had a hard time doing something like that. But this thing was able to just step in the center of the berm and go on top, excuse me. And we went on top of the berm to see, and when you get on top of the berm, boom, it's just this clear, perfect visual of our campsite. At that point, we were able to connect the dots, whatever this thing was, walk through my tent, move my stool, walked over in between, right in the middle of the vehicles, goes up to the berm, gets on top of the berm and watches our campsite for who knows how long, and, you know, at which point decides to leave, I guess. But that's definitely one of the encounters that's up there for, you know, holy crap, you know, kind of, kind of, kind of creepy, kind of, you know, just one of those moments, man, where it's like, you know, they're right there and it's, yeah, it's really

Brandon: exciting. At any of that point, when you were hearing everything you said exciting, were you ever afraid of it, if you had actually came face to face

Coleman: with it? Most definitely, most definitely. You know, it's easy and it's easy to, like, talk about wanting to see one of these things and stuff. And of course I do, like, I do want to have a full, I mean, I believe I've seen one. I haven't seen, like, I haven't had a class A, I could tell you, you know, whatever, but I've seen movements, I've seen silhouettes and figures in the dark, you know, whatever. Those are different stories from a different day, but, you know, I haven't had a full class A encounter. And, you know, as investigators and researchers, you know, we, that's like the holy grail, so to speak, you know, is to be able to have that full daytime, you know, or nighttime, you know, whatever, just perfect visual encounter where you can see one of these things in detail. And, you know, of course I want that, but, and when you're in the moment, you're there and you're in the woods, at night especially, and you're in the middle of a national forest and it's just nothing but you and miles of woods and, you know, you are stuck in a tent. I mean, it is spooky, you know, it is creepy because, I mean, we're talking about forest giants, seven feet, eight feet, nine feet tall, hundreds of pounds, you know, I mean, like I said, if it wanted to hurt me, it very well could have, and it could have very easily have done that. So, yeah, you know, definitely thinking back on it, but especially being in the moment, I mean, that is definitely, you know, it definitely made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up when that was happening, especially when I heard it move my stool, because then I knew like, okay, like whatever this thing is, is moving and dragging my stool and it is literally within like a few feet of my tent right now. So. What got you interested in cryptids? I've had a, I've been interested in this since I was a kid growing up. I would watch shows like Finding Bigfoot, Monster Quest, stuff like that. And ever since then, I've always been super fascinated with I didn't have an encounter or anything like that growing up or, you know, it sparked my interest ever since then. I've just have always been really fascinated with the possibility of things like this existing and the fact that people from every walk of life out there go out in the woods and have encounters with these things and see these things. And I just, I just thought the idea was really cool. What really cemented it for me was when I later on became an adult. Me and my buddies, oh, let me backtrack. Me and my buddies, my friends, when we were younger, when we were kids, we made like these stupid little like YouTube videos and like short films and stuff. And we made one about Bigfoot and talked about as kids when we were younger, you know, hey, how cool would it be if one of these days, you know, we made like an actual movie or documentary about looking for Bigfoot. And we always, you know, laughed about it. Yeah, yeah, that'd be cool, whatever. And then years go on. I'm in my early 20s and kind of reconnect with those friends and we would have conversations and about, you know, hey, remember when we talked about, you know, doing that, doing that documentary, one of my friends actually went and got a degree in film and filmmaking and, you know, went to film school and learned how to do that stuff. And I've always had a passion and love for like video editing, making videos. And so we decided like, hey, why don't we do it? I did like, Hey, why don't we do it? And so we did, we got together and we made the first documentary called expedition alone, a quest for the home of Sasquatch. And it was just promulgling our journey into the world of Bigfoot and Bigfoot research. And it's hard to watch. It's kind of cringey. I can't hardly watch it just because we went out in the woods and we're kind of just mimicking what we saw on like TV, you know, we're doing. We had no idea what we were doing. We're going in the woods and we're howling and yelling and all that. But, um, it was a lot of fun though. I look back on it with a lot of fun. It was good times. And, but that's what for me, filming that documentary, going into hotspots, doing the research, like, you know, truly researching sightings and activity and behavior of these creatures. That's what sealed the deal for me. Um, you know, talking to researchers and just seeing how interesting the subject really is and how, how great of a mystery it is. I've always been, I always love mysteries, you know, like true crime as well. I liked this. I just feel like this is one of the greatest mysteries ever. You know, there's the mystery of cryptids and Bigfoot and things like this. You know, what are they, you know, what, what is going on? How are they so elusive? Things like this. And so at that point I, um, I emailed Brian and I started looking for, uh, cryptid research groups, um, in my state. And that's how I found red dirt cryptids. I found them on at least Facebook. And I think I was able to find the email for red dirt. And then so I sent Brian an email letting him know, Hey, you know, I know this is kind of random, but, you know, this is my name. This is who I am, blah, blah, blah. If you ever need a, another member of, I would love to, you know, hopefully meet you and, and, you know, I joined the group, you know, cause that, um, I still have my love and passion for filmmaking, but I found this new action I had, you know, discovered, which was cryptid research and I really wanted to pursue that even after my first documentary came out and, uh, he reached back out to me and was like, you know, we're doing this thing out in Heyburn Lake and, um, you know, if you want to meet us, you know, feel free. And so that's, I went there. I met Brian and Eric. Um, I found my first set of tracks, um, made with Brian, some good tracks and decent sized tracks. And that was just even, you know, further cemented, we had a siding that day as well, Brian and I, um, with something peeking behind a tree. Um, it was just an exciting day, exciting time. So at that point forward, I was, I was hooked and then, so that's what we've been doing ever since.

Brandon: I've just been recently going out and finding things in about two weeks ago, I came across a set of tracks and these are strange because they're not bigger than like a human's foot, far as the size, but the toes are bigger from what I could make out, but it's the middle of winter. And who's walking through the woods barefoot. So the, so if you send me pictures of it, I'll, I'll take a look at it. I can send it to you. So I found those, but the other thing is there's other tracks along with it and the tracks looked canine. So very, very strange. Like you see some, uh, it looks like a person and then you see, uh, some bigger dog tracks. Um, weird, uh, weird things. I'll take a look at it for you.

Brian: That's, that's kind of what we do. So now, um, and, uh, we'll, we'll shoot it to you straight.

Brandon: So I can shoot it over to you here in a little bit, but well, Brian, I would, uh, you mentioned something earlier about a dog, man. That is one of my, uh, go-tos because that's something that the whole reason I do my show is because of something that I saw and people claim it was a dog, man, which back when I seen it, I didn't even know what a dog man was.

Brian: So that was the same with me. I, um, I had been looking kind of recreationally for Sasquatch for many, many years, you know, because of some strange things that happened to me when I was a kid and as I get older, you know, I, I watched the legend of boggy Creek and that's when I kind of realized that, Hey man, some of stuff that was going on down the farm could be, you know, big foot related. So I was always looking out for big foot, but I had no idea what a dog man was and, uh, you know, so, and, uh, I want to say it was either, well, I've had two encounters with dog men and I'm at the time. Uh, I didn't realize that they were connected. And the reason why I say that is, is they didn't look the same. They looked very different. Um, the first one that I saw was, uh, I was going out to, you know, a piece of land that, uh, belongs to a family member and I was driving out there and I just happened to go over the crest of this little valley. And I look off to my left out the driver's side, uh, window and I see what's basically a monstrous giant wolf. And when I first looked at it, you know, I thought, wow, you know, that's a really big dog. And, uh, then I kind of, I mean, you know, it takes a couple of seconds for it to kind of dawn on me. I'm a little slow, you know? But anyway, uh, you know, I kind of look forward and then I just kind of punch in the numbers and I'm like, oh my God, that's like the biggest dog that ever lived. And I turned back around and this thing is running away. And, uh, I noticed at the time that it had some unusual characteristics about it, but, but all in all, I mean, it basically looked like a very large black wolf that was basically the size of a cow. And, uh, I remember at the time thinking that it was some kind of, you know, hat, you know, wolf dog, you know, cause I've seen people that raise wolves and, uh, I thought it maybe had that gigantism disease or whatever. And so my thoughts were at the time is like, well, this is obviously some kind of freak of nature. And I remember thinking at the time that man, it's, it's not that it's not going to live very long before some rancher puts a 30 out six round through its ass and, and that'll be the end of that. Well, anyway, uh, then the second one that I had was probably about a year later and it was a completely different location. But this one didn't really look like a wolf. Uh, this one, I know now what it was, uh, but it is one of those hyena type dog men that people sometimes report, except this thing was jet black too, but it had like a kind of a smashed in muzzle looking thing, kind of a short muzzle, didn't have the tall pointy ears, kind of had short rounded ears. And, uh, at the time when I saw it, it was, uh, sitting, it was crouched down in the middle of a country road. It was, it was kind of down on, I tell people it was, it was trying to do the Wiley coyote thing where it was like real low to the ground and it, it looked like it was sneaking up on something. And I kind of let off the gas of my vehicle. I was driving my company truck and, and, uh, as I crosed up on it, uh, I got really close to it and it turned around and looked at me and, and I was like, what in the hell is that? I had no idea what I was looking at because it kind of in the face looked like some kind of bear, but it didn't have a bear's body. It kind of had a body that looked more, more canine, you know? And, uh, now I know now that it was one of these, you know, hyena variants or whatever that just happened to be black in color. But, uh, long story is I didn't even put the two into together. Um, I know that like a couple of days after that, I ended up going to, uh, there's a town over here called Moreland, Oklahoma, and I went over there to that school and there, your mascot was a bear cat, Moreland bear cat. Cats and you know, the, the, the low, the mascot on the wall kind of look like that, you know? And so I was thinking that I'd seen some kind of weird hybrid again, but, but again, I didn't put the two and two together, but it wasn't until like 2016, um, my brother sent me some links to some podcasts. And, you know, I, I'd never really know much about podcasts and stuff, but he sent me a link to one. And I think it was actually a Sasquatch Chronicles or something, but it got me hooked on, you know, listening to podcasts. And so I started listening to them. And as I was listening to big foot podcasts, you know, I kept hearing them talk about, hear about this dog man thing, you know, dog man, dog man. And, you know, they'd make casual references to it. First couple of times I heard it. I didn't think anything of it, but eventually I was like, you know, what the hell is this dog man thing? You know, cause I'm picturing, you know, something with like, like a centaur or something with a he man's upper body and the lower body of a dog or something. hog or something, I didn't know what it was. Well, well, anyway, uh, make long story short, um, I kind of Googled it to do a quick Google search on it. And that's when I was like, Oh crap, I've seen one of those. And that's when the reality set on me. It's like, you know, that wasn't an isolated incident. There's a breeding population of these things. So I was, I was very, to say I was flabbergasted was, was, um, and it even took me even longer to put together that the hyena one that I'd seen was actually a variant of a dog. So, but it was the hyena one was actually considerably smaller than the, than the big one. But that's kind of what got me, uh, interested and wanted to, you know, start like a social media outlet so that, so that I could get in contact with people and, and, uh, try to learn more and try to find out what all was going on in my area. And, uh, but yeah, my, my two dog band encounters, you know, they were both, I guess you could call them roadside encounters, they were both in broad daylight, I got really good looks at both of them and, um, you know, the, the little one, the hyena one was probably, it was probably about a little bit bigger than like, um, Oh, like a, what do you call those, the big old black lab. It was bigger and the body was longer. It had a longer body than a, than a dog. That's, that's another way that I knew something was wrong with it. Um, and, uh, but yeah, the, the one that I saw that was the wolf looking one, I guess you'd call it a type one variant. Um, it was huge. It was probably 550 pounds plus. And if it was said, if it was on all fours, it would probably look me in the eyes, so it was, it was a big one. I can't imagine how big it would have been. Neither one of them. Did I see them, you know, stand up on their hind legs or anything, you know, where wolfish or whatever. I don't know what I would have done if I'd have seen that I would have changed everything at the time. But for years, I just went along thinking that I'd seen some freaky stuff, you know, it was just a weird thing, you know, it's a freak of nature, probably won't live that long. You know, but it was, it was many years later that I actually put all the puzzle pieces together and figured it out.

Brandon: I've heard a few people say like the large wolf looking ones are descendants of dire wolf. And I'm like, well, I mean, our walls aren't that big, right? So it's like, I don't know. I know that they've probably seen dire wolf from the game of Thrones TV show and those things were huge. So I think that's where they're getting their ideas from. But some of the descriptions people have reported seeing some of these on all fours, like you said, as big as a cow and someone else had told me that it was over the hood of their truck when it was walking. And that was the back part of it. So if you think of the back of the hood of a truck with its head up, the heads up past the windshield. So again, that's, that's not a normal size dog. So I don't know, not even a wolf. So it has to be something different about it. Yeah.

Brian: And it was the one that I, the big one, it was built different too. It had some unusual body characteristics, you know, like, like most wolves, if you look at them from the front, you know, they look really skinny, like their front two legs almost touch when they walk. Uh, this thing here looked more like it's, it's front torso looked more like a pit bull or something, you know, and, uh, when it ran, uh, I got to see it running away and it, uh, its butt was lower to the ground than its, uh, front torso. Um, I didn't really know what I was looking at, at the time, but now that I've kind of put everything together, I realized that I think the, uh, the rear legs are just physically smaller, uh, you know, in, in, in girth, I guess you'd say then the upper torso. Um, but like I said, at the time, I didn't know, I just thought I'd seen a big wolf that ran funny and looked a little goofy, you know. Uh, wasn't honestly, I really didn't know that much about wolves, you know, until, until after I realized what I'd seen and I started researching it and I realized, you know, that really wasn't a wolf. There was some serious body differences. So I could do dogs. I just, I don't know wolves.

Brandon: I could be completely wrong, but I'm thinking like the hyena, aren't their back legs smaller than their front legs too. When they run, it looks like their backs like are tilted backwards.

Brian: Yes, that is true. Um, from what I've seen, yeah. And, you know, I, when I saw the, the one, uh, over there by Moyers, Oklahoma, um, it didn't really, it was like crops down really low to the ground, so maybe the fact that it was, it was trying to, it was focused on something on the side of the road and it was trying to creep up on it. You know, maybe, uh, maybe I just couldn't pick up on that because of its, uh, its posture at the time. Uh, and when it realized that I was rolling up on it, I mean, it just launched, you know, into the, into the tall bushes and then into some, there were some small trees there too. So I never really got to see it running away or anything. It just did like, it just lurched into the, into the tall grass. So, yeah, kind of weird.

Brandon: If you ever happened to come across another one, knowing what you know now, would you approach it differently than what you did before? Just being confused now that you know what it could be.

Brian: First of all, I wouldn't approach it, but, but, uh, I would, I would probably, if I could get my wits about me quick enough, I'd probably try to film it. But, uh, you know, like I said, I don't, when it comes to dog man, uh, you know, I think you've got a lot better chance of being attacked by a dog man than you, than you would a Sasquatch. So I would probably handle, uh, you know, a nice class a daytime Sasquatch sighting a little bit different than I would a dog man. And, uh, I would probably be a lot more cautious with the dog man. And, uh, because I really don't think that the Sasquatch people really have any, I would say like 98% of them have no ill will towards us. They just, they just want to watch us. And, you know, we're kind of a curiosity thing, but, uh, with dog man, I don't know, I don't think we have enough information on them yet. And Lord knows they are built for predation.

Brandon: So now not the, not to make it sound like a loaded question, but what do you guys feel like these things actually are, cause I know people have different variations of what they believe, but like a dog man, a lot of people think there's like a supernatural element to some of them because of just the whole werewolf vibe, apparently that it gives off to them so they don't think they're like just a normal flesh and blood creature. Then you have people that think that part about Sasquatch too. Where do you guys align up to it when you're doing your investigation? Do you think they're flesh and blood or do you think there's something else with them?

Brian: Call and watch you shoot first on this one. Yeah.

Coleman: I mean, that's definitely the million dollar question. Um, you know, it's tough to say I go back and forth on that all the time and my answer will be different, probably just depend upon when I'm asked, you know, um, what day someone asked me that question or whatever. Um, cause I go, I guess that I go back and forth. Um, you know, when I first started out on this, you know, I definitely took the approach, um, at least when it comes to Sasquatch, um, that these were, you know, purely flesh and blood, purely, you know, um, you know, relic hominids, um, you know, all that stuff, you know, the typical, you know, sort of flesh and blood theories, you know, uh, descendant, uh, gigantic is relic hominids, you know, something, something along those lines, um, some type of primate, um, some type of, you know, human ancestor or something like that, or something along the, you know, the branches of, you know, whatever, like I said, hominid, um, but I will say this, uh, here recently, uh, Brian and I, and the guys at Red Dirt, you know, we, we did a documentary, not to shamelessly plug, but it's an element of the question. Um, you know, we did a documentary, um, called Whispers from the Woods. And when we first started the documentary, we were, I mean, it was supposed to be just kind of like your typical normie Bigfoot documentary. like your typical normie Bigfoot documentary. I mean, we were initially, we weren't even gonna call it, obviously we weren't gonna call it Whispers from the Woods, that came later on based off the evidence we got. But we were initially gonna call it Red Deer Sasquatch. And it was just gonna be about, how we research Bigfoot, how we research cryptids, stuff like that. I mean, it was just gonna be kind of something to just focus on that alone. But the more we filmed that, we started having really weird stuff happen to us. And that's a whole separate deal, but like a lot of weird, what you could call like paranormal stuff. I mean, EVPs, invisible growls from a creature that we came and see. I mean, the list goes on and on, just weird stuff. And the more you spend time in this field, I mean, the more you see and you hear the weird stuff, the woo, whatever you wanna call it. And with the mind speak and the telepathy and the lights, so many researchers have seen the lights, the strange light phenomenon. So, it's hard to say for sure, because there's so many things at play. On one hand, could you be talking about different phenomena just happening in the same place? Just because you see strange light phenomena in a Bigfoot hotspot or an area where there's been sightings or reports, that doesn't therefore, logically speaking, can't really come to conclusion while Bigfoot is paranormal. It could be two different phenomena going on the same location. Then again, you do have this stuff where people claim they see Bigfoot cloaking and all these different things. I think based off my experiences and the eyewitnesses and all the people I've had in encounters like this, I think there's something more to them, kind of just what I say and where I leave it. I think they are a physical flesh and blood creature, they're a species or whatever. Speaking in regards to Sasquatch, I think they do things that are very much that what you expect from biological species of whatever they are, human, or whatever other possibility they could be. At the same time, there's that other weird aspect to them of what seems like they can do things that just other species, other things that exist, you know, things that we can't do. And I think it's just, to them, it's very natural, but to us, it's what we call supernatural paranormal. But I think it's just something they have the ability to do. I don't think they're nearly spiritual or ethereal or anything like that. I just think they have their abilities they can do. And there's tons of research as to why that is. I mean, people have listened to the telepathy tapes. For example, you know, when you're talking about like autistics of aunts who can telepathically speak to each other and speak to their parents and do all these incredible things that there's no other way they can do that other than they have these abilities. You know, there's just things all the time that we're learning about in parapsychology and all these things where, you know, it's just part of reality. We just can't quantify it, you know? And that's where people get rooted out. And I think that's a good way of me saying, I don't really know, but I just think there is something more to these creatures. I think some of these, I will say, I think some cryptids, maybe like Dogman, could be wrong. You know, I'm not as well-versed on Dogman as Brian and some of the other guys in the group, but so I'm gonna lend that more to him. I will say to me, when I look at Dogman reports, to me, that seems more supernatural to me. That seems a little bit more paranormal to me. I would expect personally, I could be wrong. It would be a more paranormal type phenomena than, you know, physical species of, you know, upright canines or whatever. I could be totally wrong, for sure.

Brian: That's just my opinion. Well, my opinion on that for many, many years was that, you know, based on the two that I'd seen, that they were very much flesh and blood, that they were, you know, at the time, thinking that, you know, one of them was gonna get shot pretty quick just simply because the, you know, some rancher was gonna see it as a threat to, you know, he was gonna see it as a threat to his cattle. And I, for years and years, I was very much a flesh and blood, you know, individual. But, you know, like I said, when we started working on that documentary, it was like, it was almost like we just kind of opened up Pandora's box, you know. Coleman and I and one of our camera guys, Alex, he, we went down to Southeastern Oklahoma just to do a stereotypical mundane interview with a guy that had had a Bigfoot encounter. And, you know, we were, you know, just, I mean, I wasn't even really geared up for, you know, field research or anything like that. You know, I was just kind of grabbing, you know, microphones and stuff. So we go out there and we get there and we're interviewing the guy and he's like, oh yeah, I found this weird footprint, you know. And he was thinking it was a Bigfoot footprint. And so he's showing it to me and, well, the dang thing has claws on it, you know. And I'm kind of looking over here at Coleman and he's looking at me and we're like, I don't know about this, you know. And so we took a lot of pictures of that footprint and he told us about where he found it and all the strange situations around. It was just, it was down in a river bottom and it was just like, there was this one patch of sandy soil and there just happened to be that one print in there. Well, while we were down there, he was like, hey man, you want me to show you where I found that footprint? And we're like, yeah, sure. It was kind of like a, oh, by the way type scenario. And so we take off and we, you know, we walked about three quarters of a mile down this old road. He takes us over there to the river and shows us and we really can't get down there because the river's all flooded, you know. But we're kind of there and he's talking about it. We turn around, we come back and there was five people with us, you know. There was two eyewitnesses, me and Coleman and our cameraman, Alex. And all of a sudden it's just like, from right in front of us, broad daylight, you know, just off to our left, you know, there's this something, this huge canine type growl coming from right there, but there's nothing there. We couldn't see anything. And, you know, we were kind of in shock at first, didn't know what to do, confused. We should be seeing something. We were talking and just kind of having a good time and next thing you know, it's like there's something going down and well, anyway, we finally, you know, got recording and we caught like a little tiny bit of it which we're gonna probably try to put in our, the documentary that we're working on now. We're currently working on a dog man documentary and we're gonna be talking about that and that, but whatever it was was right in front of us and it was invisible. And we ended up searching the whole area, trying to figure out where it went. We thought it had gone somewhere. Now looking back on it, I'm not entirely sure it ever left. I mean, I think it might've just been, it just might've just been something that we just were not able to see. But anyway, we were driving back to the motel room to the cabin and where we were staying and we were driving for like hour and a half before we could finally bring it up to say, you know what, I think whatever that was was invisible. And ever since then it's like, there's just been this weird chain of stuff. So, you know, years ago I had a buddy that I went to college with and his name was Brandon Colley. And he's passed away now, but he's Native American and he told me that there's three types of these dog man creatures. He says there's dog men that are born, naturally born animals and they're very much just, they're not paranormal or anything. They're just a really big wolf. And he said, you know, some of them have, you know, like raccoon type hands. And he said, now some of them are spiritual. They're like, they're kind of like a ghost or something like that. And they're kind of in between two worlds. And he said, and there's a third type. And he says, that's your, he didn't use the word skinwalker, but basically he said there's Native American medicine men that practice medicine and they can shape shift and a lot of times they choose the form of a wolf. And he said, so, you know, these creatures are gonna fall into one of three categories. And to be frank, since I've been doing it a long time, it's like, I keep going back to that. You know, it's like one of those three, one of those three, it usually falls into one of those three categories and now that I've gotten older and I've had more exposure, I think that Brandon was absolutely right. He told me that his grandpa told him this and I believe he was part Seminole and part Potawatomi, half and half. So I don't know which tribe that information came from, but you know, he was always real solid with me and we were pretty tight. We went way back. So clear back into college when we kept each other out of jail. So yeah, well, yeah, that's a whole different set of stories there. So, but yeah, I mean, I would like, it would be much more in my comfort zone to think that they are just flesh and blood, but, you know, unfortunately

Brandon: it's not that simple. My struggle when it comes to flesh and blood is we haven't found a body for any of the cryptids yet, at least not publicly. So that is looking at it from a skeptical stance. I see why a lot of people are hesitant to say that these things exist because there's been no definitive proof other than your occasional blurry photo or a video that people claim are fake. And nowadays you can't even post any sort of evidence because everyone's going to say it's AI. There's been videos and stuff posted from years ago before it's ever like before AI was ever a thing and people are calling it now AI. So yeah, I don't know.

Brian: Well, I'm with you. I struggle on the lack of a body too, but you know, when you think about it, you know, I spend a lot of time in the woods. I mean, just not just doing field research, but before that I was a, I was a Boy Scout leader and that's been my primary hobby for the last 30 years is camping and spending time hiking. I like kayaking and doing all kinds anything outdoors. And, you know, you think about it, you know, there's, there's 3.9 million people in Oklahoma. That's a lot of people. I have never found a dead human in the woods. You know, I'm, I'm pretty sure that there's not, you know, there's, I would be if I speculate in my area, I'd say there's surely no more than 4,000 Sasquatch in Oklahoma. And probably I'm going to say less than 500 dog men. There's, I mean, to me, that's like the extreme numbers of what could possibly now we can probably argue that all day long. And that's just me basing it on, you know, the reports coming in and pure speculation on my part. So please don't crucify me over my throwing numbers out there. But my point is, is there's 3.9 million people walking around in Oklahoma and I spend more time in the woods than probably, you know, 98% of the people walking around out here and I've never found a dead human. So what makes you think that, you know, we're going to, we're going to find a dead one of those.

Brandon: Right. Yeah. I, I just feel like when people are out in the woods and you can take this as for hunters or anyone in general, and I was actually talking to someone the other night, they brought up a good point too. Just because people say they haven't found a skeleton or any sort of remains. How often do you go through the woods and you might see a Randall bone and you just ignore it thinking it's just some random animal. So you don't necessarily know that it's not like a big foot bone or something else. You don't, you don't necessarily know unless you dig up the whole thing, you find a skull. Well, let's just say you see like a, a rib bone or a leg bone or something. No one really thinks about it long as I'm sticking up, but you brought up a good point. You don't find human remains either. You also don't find very often any sort of remains for anything that's a predator. How often do you go out into the woods and ever see a random mountain lion skeleton or a bear or you just don't, but we know those exist because we've seen them, but you don't ever see the remains either. So that's why you can't just say this because we haven't found it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Well, and you know, there is a,

Brian: a little closet argument that I guess we could bring up. You know, people talk about the Smithsonian and finding of the, you know, them acquiring all the giant skeletons from all over the country. And, you know, I happened to know for a fact that back in the, I want to say it was the 1950s, there was seven large, there was a, there was a big flood down by, I want to say it was Paul's Valley and the river flooded down there and it washed some, some bank out and it revealed a bunch of large skeletons. And to the best of my knowledge that, that was OU, Oklahoma University, sent some archeologists out there and they examined it and they collected these bones and they took them back and they were apparently labeled as a Native American bones. And a lot of people think that those might have actually been, you know, Sasquatch bones or possibly giant bones, but they were just, they were just kind of stamp Native American because they, they didn't fit the standard, you know, bone structure of what they were looking for. And they just, they filed them away somewhere. So who's to say that there are not Sasquatch bones and skeletons, you know, stored away, misidentified, possibly even honestly misidentified by, by, you know, scientists and archeologists, you know, stored away in boxes in the basement of some of these museums around, you know, I mean, if again, we do not have a type specimen. So if they was to stumble across something like that, they wouldn't know what kind of category to put it

Brandon: in. Right. Do you think that there will ever be a time where there's more honesty about these things of say, hypothetically, let's just say that the government is aware of Bigfoot or something. You think there'd ever be a time in this quote unquote age of discover like disclosure that they're talking about the Bigfoot would ever be one of those things that ever talk about, or you think they'd still keep it under wraps if they knew about it?

Brian: Well, I think that, you know, the Darby Orcat project down there at North Carolina State is, I think it's going to change some things. They're currently, they got a grant to, you know, basically, you know, document unknown DNA types of unknown DNA sequences. It's not just, you know, Bigfoot, it's anything that is really unknown. And that's the only, I think that's probably the only reason that they actually got the grant pushed through. But eventually, they're going to have to come out, you know, come out and release their findings. And everybody in the Bigfoot community, they want to know, well, when are they going to come out with the results? When are they going to come out with the results? Well, I'll tell you when they're going to come out with the results. As soon as the grant money runs out, that's when because as long as the grant money is coming in, they're going to continue doing the work in an effort to be more and more thorough. And so long story short, it depends on how long but when that happens, I think a lot of things are going to change. And I think that we're going to see a new age of open willingness to talk about these things. When we have, you know, a genome sequence in the in the gene bank, that is a unknown North American primate that is extremely similar to homo sapiens, possibly even in our family tree, that's going to open a lot of eyes. And there's going to be a whole lot of people eating crow. So I'm personally, I'm very much looking forward to that. I think that the I think that work on Dogman is by 20 or 30 years behind the Sasquatch. And, you know, as far as like coming along in more ways than one. And but I think that eventually we're going to find out that there's some extremely large variants of canines that were previously unknown around here too. And we're probably going to find out that there are a lot more intelligent than

Brandon: what we're comfortable with. That's my biggest thing when it comes to these creatures is the amount of intelligence they have to have. It's not a intelligence that a normal dog would have, especially like for Dogman, for example, just the way that these things have been Oh, just the way that these things have been reported of looking at people and some of the things that they do and how they interact with stuff. Very humanoid ish. That's not your typical canine, but I don't know of anywhere in biology where a canine has the ability to do some of the things that these things do. That's where I kind of go back to with the whole supernatural element because biologically evolutionary terms, how does a dog man come to exist? It just doesn't make much sense. I understand how like a Bigfoot could exist because it's not far from a human, but of all the other canines, I don't know of any other canines that could be bipedal.

Brian: Well, a lot of people do struggle with the bipedal part of it, but you know, humans are not the only species on the planet to, you know, we don't have a monopoly on bipedalism. I mean, kangaroos do it. Birds do it. You know, ostriches, there's a lot of animals and of course everybody knows that bears can do it for short distances and everything, but you know, it's not some kind of special adaptation that's unique to humans. Like we like to think that we're some kind of, you know, unique little snowflake in the animal kingdom that is, that is just, you know, we are the most highly evolved, the specialized and no, I mean, you know, when you really sit down and you look at it, we're mutts. We're like a big hodgepodge, you know, mixture of all these different, you know, sapiens that that we're all breeding with each other at one point in time. We're not as special as we seem to think we are. I don't think. And so when you sit on, you think about it, it opens up doors for things like, like Sasquatch, you know, being another relic hominoid that's just undiscovered, you know, and possibly even others. I mean, how do you explain? I mean, I don't have all the answers, but you know, it's not just dog man and Bigfoot out there. There are other things out there too. So I think that we're dealing with multiple things on multiple levels. And the first, the step, the first thing that we need to do is we need to accept our own levels of ignorance. I mean, the problem is, is we're arrogant. We think we know everything. We think our scientists have it all figured out and we couldn't be further from the truth. That is, we don't know hardly anything. And the sooner that we come to that conclusion at that point, we can really start to learn, I think.

Brandon: Yeah, I agree. Well, we've been going on for a little over an hour. I want to ask about, you said you've made documentaries and you're working on one. Where can people find your documentaries at?

Brian: Colbyn, why don't you take that one?

Coleman: So check out our documentaries. Like I was saying earlier, Whispers from the Woods came out. Was that late last year? That's our most recent documentary project. Whispers from the Woods. So definitely check that out. A couple of others. We kind of have like a, sort of like a mini documentary kind of so to speak on Mohawk Park that we did. I've been doing research at that area. So definitely if you're familiar with that area or kind of working on getting reports specifically from people who have either high possible encounters there or near that area or know anything about it. So definitely check out, check out that video. And comment down below, reach out to Brian. Any information on that? We're currently working on, we actually finished filming the Dogmean documentary here recently as of our last expedition, we officially wrapped filming and we're now going to go into editing here soon. So I'm about to start working on that, doing the editing and post production stuff. And then hopefully that should be coming out here very soon, here shortly. If you want to check any of those out, definitely go to Red Deer Cryptids, YouTube channel. That's where all of our stuff is. All of our investigations, documentaries, feature documentaries, and that definitely driving all the good YouTube stuff.

Brandon: Okay. I'll make sure to include that in the show notes for anyone listening. I appreciate it.

Brian: Well guys, we just try to be honest and show people what we're really finding. You know, we don't do fiction. And you know, we try to approach things from a logical point of view and we put out, you know, unglamorized, unhyped, you know, stuff. And you know, I don't, I don't make a big deal out of stuff that really isn't real evidence. So, you know, everything that we do, we try to be as down to earth as possible. Right.

Brandon: I'm currently working on editing and filming at the same time, a documentary for around here. I've got a lot of films. I'm trying to put a lot of it together, but there's still a couple of interviews I have to do, but it's a lot more time consuming than I ever expected it to be.

Coleman: Oh yeah. It's tough. Yeah. People don't realize how to really put time different to projects like that. I mean, you know, some people just see an hour and a half long sitting and they don't realize, I mean, for our, like I said, the last one we did was first from the woods. I mean, we went three different locations all over Oklahoma. Interviews they had to do evidence review and film that. And then the editing process is not easy. Go through all that footage and figure out what, what do we keep? What do we not keep? You know, it's, it's not easy. It's, it's a, it's definitely a deal. And it's not what I'm not really good at at all, but you know, it's definitely something that people don't understand how difficult that can be. It's definitely worth it though.

Brandon: I've been spending almost every single day on my Christmas break from work. I took a couple of weeks off and it's been almost a 12 hour workday of just editing stuff. So I get it. Well guys, it's been a pleasure talking with you. I'm so glad that you were able to come on here tonight and talk with me,

Brian: man, buddy. We appreciate you having us on. Um, uh, we always love to, you know, meet new people and talk about this stuff. And, you know, cause the way I look at it, every time you, you meet somebody new, you get like a, another piece of the puzzle, you know, you can learn a little something from anybody. I think if you, if you have ears to hear. Right.

Brandon: I agree with that, but we're going to wrap this one up. So again, thanks to Brian and thanks to Coleman and we will check you on the next one. If you would like to be a guest on tinfoil tells, remember to send an email to tinfoil tells podcast at gmail.com, or you can also go to tinfoil tells.com and go to the contact section. Just make sure to reach out and get ahold of me and we will get something scheduled for a future episode. You can also find tinfoil tells on Facebook and Instagram. Just look for tinfoil tells podcast and reach out to me that way too. Remember to share the show around word of mouth is the best way to help the show grow. And just remember truth comes at cost. Are you willing to pay the price?