Ep. 2: Highway Horrors (Dogman Encounter)

Brandon: Welcome to the show, I'm your host, Brandon Wright. On tonight's episode, we'll be joined by our guest, Warren. Warren is here to share his encounter with something on the highway that just doesn't seem too natural. So sit back, relax, and enjoy tonight's episode. Welcome to our guest of the show, Warren. Warren had a pretty interesting encounter with something on the long side of the road that he'd like to come on the show and share with you. So go ahead and jump over to Warren, let him tell you his story. Warren, welcome to the show.

Warren: Hi, hi, Brandon, thanks for having me on. I'm happy to share my story and feel free to ask questions as much as you want to. I guess I'll start at the beginning of this. This story dates back to about 2014. Well, a little bit, get my story straight here. I put the early 2014, if I remember correctly. At the time, I was dating this chick and dated her for like maybe four and a half years, and about halfway through, we were serious, trying to move forward in our life and everything. So in addition to having fun, as girlfriend and boyfriends do, we also had plenty of serious money and children conversations which unfortunately led to a lot of arguing. So that's kind of where the story begins. We were living in Atlanta, Georgia at the time, and on our way to see a friend who lived in Savannah, or actually in Tybee Island, which is outside of Savannah Beach Town. And it was a late night or a corporate Saturday night, if I remember right. We had left late that evening, maybe like eight or nine o'clock from Atlanta. And so we had passed through Macon 11, 12 o'clock, something like that. Somewhere in the 12, 12, 30 hour kind of range, we had gone past Macon and we were maybe about a third of the way from Macon to Savannah. And a little background for folks who don't know about this highway. It's a very long, long interstate in America that runs well over a hundred miles. There's almost nothing out there. There, early on, and there's like a little truck stop where you can even fuel up and everything. And there's like another truck stop on down the way. We'd already passed this first truck stop. So we had like a nice long, dark, straight highway to traverse with no lights, no signs, no exits, no buildings, it's just, it's nothing. It's flat, it's boring. There's nothing out there. Occasionally, you'll see like a radio tower over the horizon until you go a long way. Now, there are settlements and villages off this highway, but you, whenever an exit did come along, it's one of those situations where you turn off and you've got to drive a good 15 or 20 minutes before you get to some little, you know, quote, unquote, kind of place. And obviously, once you approach upon the bigger cities, there's more, but we're a third of the way through. It's dark, there's nothing out there. We've long since passed the truck stop. Being that it was late, there weren't a lot of cars on this highway. I remember one set of taillights way ahead of me and occasionally passing the car on the left side of the highway. This is a two-lane highway on each side with a wide median in the middle. So, you know, two lanes going east, two lanes going west, and the median was wide enough to kind of have, very judgmental distance, some of this kind of stuff, but I'd say probably a 15, 20-yard median, a very wide median, very, very wide median, completely grass, a little bit of a dip in the middle. This particular portion of the highway is also completely straight. So there were no curves. We're just kind of hauling. I've got the car on cruise control at about 82 miles per hour. And to go back to how I started the story, my girlfriend at the time, we're arguing about something. I don't even know what it was. It was something unimportant and petty and probably about seven different things at once. And, you know, girlfriends are usually pretty good at a mic drop comment, right? No, I don't remember what exactly she said because everything in my memory after we had our encounter was lost as far as that conversation was concerned. But she said something, and it made me mad. And I was driving the car, and I had looked over her and gave her like a snap, like, oh my God, who said that? And then like snapped my head a hard left out the driver window, just a physical reaction. It's not like I meant to look out the driver window. But when I did, I saw an animal, clearly an animal, running on all fours at pace with the car. And it took me a split second to think that thing's running fast. You know, I'm going 82 miles an hour, you know, definitely over 80. So, oh, just for reference, we're driving a late 90s model Lexus LS 400. It's an old used car of an excellent shape, very sturdy, very, very thick, safe car, heavy metal on the outside of it. Not accident proof, but close to. And looking out the left window and seeing this thing, to describe it, it's very large, the size of a small pony, larger than like a Shetland pony, but a small mule or donkey or something, much bigger than a dog. If you compared it to a dog, it would be like a Great Dane, but a very large, muscular, thick built Great Dane. It ran on all fours. It was hairless. It had sort of a pale, almost white sort of color to it, maybe a bit yellowish skin color, but a light pinkish, palish skin color, like a naked mole rat. I didn't have that much time to really investigate the skin, because this is what happened. It happened pretty quickly, but a naked mole rat, if you look one up on the internet, that's literally what the skin looked like, that texture, that color, very strange. Had no hair, save for a bit of a mohawk from the nape of its neck, down through its shoulder blades, about halfway down its back. And I didn't see the mohawk clearly at this point in time, so I would have assumed it was probably like a row of like, you know, boar bristle type hair or something of the sort. It was dark and moving fast enough, so it was hard to see those kinds of details. Where my eyes were drawn were to two parts of the animal. First of all was its head. To describe the head would be to say that it literally looked like a saber-toothed tiger. This is crazy, but slightly smaller fangs, but still two very large incisor fangs, or not incisors, excuse me, canine type fangs. I could clearly see its open mouth and its teeth. They were all like needle sharp. I saw no molars or incisors. I just saw a lot of sharp fangs, like some kind of horror creature. I do not recall if there were more than one row of teeth, but there may have been. The teeth did seem very crowded, especially in the lower jaw. The two prominent canine incisor fangs, if you look up a skeleton of a smilodon, which is a very specific type of saber-toothed tiger that existed in North America, say 10,000 plus years ago, the shape and the size of the fangs were very close to what I saw. The creature's face resembled a dog without a nose, almost like maybe the nose had been pulled back up the face and smooshed into the head like an ape, like a type of a bonobo or a chimp. Maybe, you know, it might not be too far-fetched to say its face reminded me of a baboon or a mandrill. It had a very long face from, say, its eyes to the upper part of its jaw, rectangular shape, but its mouth was very large and open, almost looks like when you see a baboon or a mandrill's mouth, like when they do a full yawn, except its mouth wasn't like yawning like that. It's kind of like, I don't know if you guys can see, I'm trying to describe it with my face, but if you think about like a dog panting coyote or a chihuahua or something, having like a funny little bit of a smile on their mouth isn't really all that open. That's kind of what the shape of the mouth a little bit more looked like. The freaky thing was though, when I turned my head and looked at it, this thing looked back at me and made eye contact with me. It didn't look over and see a car running next to it. It's like it was waiting for me to look at it. When I looked at it, it looked right back at me, made eye contact me with glowing fiery red eyes, like a little white lab rat, except they were lit up, they were on fire. My heart about stopped upon seeing these teeth and these eyes and this grotesque looking creature. So I turned my head, it looks back at me, and then he immediately starts to charge the car. Now, to give you a physical reference of where this creature is, I'm heading east on I-16 at about 82 miles an hour. This thing is actually running in the median, but alongside the westbound lane. So it was pretty far apart from me on the other side of this meeting. Looked small from that distance, or you can tell it's big, but it's far away from the distance. When it turned its head and looked at me, it immediately increased its speed. And boy, you betcha I did too. I stomped on that gas pedal. I was going well over 100 by the time we lost this thing, but in a short amount of time. So I look at it, it looks at me, and then it runs across the median, like one, two, three, bam! And then shoulder rams it, just kind of like a football player, because it's right shoulder and rams it basically where the tire is, on the the front driver's side tire on our Lexus. If it hit the wheel then I mean it wouldn't really have left any damage. It's a solid metal wheel like using those old Lexus wheels they're just big flat giant solid metal or tire or something and if it hit the lower end of the car it didn't leave a dent but it also hit the lower end of the car where it's reinforced and has very large rubber wrap. If you look at a 97 or 98 Lexus LS 400 you'll see how they're built. They're sturdy they're rolling tanks. I also was in the left lane at the time when it charged the car I was in the process of maneuvering car into the right lane to get away from this thing. I didn't take my eyes off of it. It came at us fast and it's wild to think about makes my heart race to think about being attacked by a creature that large. I mean if you've ever been run after by like a rabid dog in a junkyard or chased by a bear in the woods and you kind of know what I mean but this happened so much faster. There was no time to think. It was like react just react. I sped up and I tried to get over a lane and it charged the car and it was gone after that. At this point I thought I had hit hallucinated and seen something crazy. If it had been the only encounter I'd ever had if no one was there I would not tell you the story I would think I've just seen a shadow on the wall but I looked over at my girlfriend at the time who for those of you who are a zodiac people for the Virgo so she kind of took things at face value always. I'm a bit of a spiritual person. She was not very pragmatic very practical. If something didn't make sense on paper she wouldn't believe it. This woman turned to me we're in our late 30s excuse me late 20s by the way we're both about 29. She turned to me and looked at me and said what was that what did you see that too and I said yeah I saw that and I tried to say I think it was some kind of giant monkey wolf thing and she said in her words that looked like a werewolf and we were like that's impossible werewolves don't exist. That could not have been a werewolf. Science has to explain it. Had to be something had to be some kind of hairless bear or mountain lion or giant mutated rat or something we don't know. And we ended up you know hauling all the way to Savannah and waking our friend up out of bed making get up in the middle of the night. You've got to come visit us we got to talk to you about what we saw on the road and I clearly remember him pulling up skeleton pictures on the internet and being like sounds like you stole saber tooth tiger dude you're crazy. And okay so anyway let's let's fast forward just a little bit. About a year to quarter year and a half into late summer 2015. So over the holidays my girlfriend and I did not do so well we broke up and we were living in North Fulton county which is about 40 minutes north of the center of Atlanta if you look at the town of Alpharetta is where we were living. So we broke up I needed some financial restructuring in my life so I moved back to Rome Georgia which is about an hour and a half west of that. It's in northwest Georgia. We got Rome Georgia Berry College you can find actually found a lot of cryptid stories and some weird stuff that goes around here. But anyway I moved back here my dad lived moved into a short time and forward with life I guess. To give you a background on what I was doing I'm a music teacher I'm a musician I currently spend most of my time playing live writing music supporting bands I play keyboard mp3 organ to write music sing solo etc. Feel free to look me up I'm all over Facebook. But at the time I was teaching music lessons full time and that's about all I was doing six days a week after school type lessons in a music school and also private lessons going to people's homes teaching you know kids to play Mary Haddle anything for Mary Haddle little lamb to dream on by Aerosmith on the piano you know. And so six days a week I drive from Rome to Alpharetta it's about a 60 70 mile trip one way and then about nine or ten o'clock usually I'd come home. Well this was a Friday afternoon a lot of my students were out of town it was late summer you know school hadn't started back just yet so like late July ish late June ish maybe even but the weather was gorgeous it was beautiful it was hot but not so hot that I couldn't drop the top on my miata and enjoy the day. And that Friday about two or three o'clock you know the rest of my students lessons like well most of us wrapped down I was able to get a lot of my students take lessons in the morning so I came home early rolling through Rome Georgia heading from east to west on a little road called Redmond Circle look that up Redmond Circle joins to shorter Avenue at a particular point and then it also hooks up to Martha Berry Highway which is also highway US Highway 27 at a certain point. So if you start at the intersection Martha Berry Highway slash US 27 and this Turner McCall slash loop one in Rome and if you had new west from there and follow that road that road will eventually have a little right turn offshoot and I think it's the first right turn after Martha Berry onto a road called Technology Parkway. Now Technology Parkway is a little dog leg road you turn right onto it but then it curves right back around the left and follows this this Turner McCall shorter Avenue Redmond Circle excuse me Redmond Circle and a lot of different names in our town present road it parallels this road well maybe like a mile or so apart but essentially I could use either of these roads the main thoroughfare to get back to my dad's house because he actually lived on the continuation of this road where it turns into a road from Garments Parkway or I could take a ride on this little Technology Parkway bypass all the red lights have no traffic and get a nice little three mile run at about 60 miles an hour at the top down and in a 90 1994 Miata that's kind of like a fun day right. Might be some donuts in a parking lot down the street but anyway when you turn off this road the first eighth mile is on a corner and it runs by a small office complex office complex would be on your left once you turn the road and on the right it's nothing but just wooded area undeveloped goes back in your real deep and as such since there's an office complex there and a couple turnouts the miles per hour limit at this part of the road is only 25 so you turn you go slow for a second you round the curve and then you can bust it up to like 50 I had nothing to do that day I turned in 25 and very black and basically made a right turn on this road it was a whim to instead of just going straight home it's like don't turn over here real quick and take that little fun run as soon as I made the turn I basically had to pull up to almost to a complete stop after going on the turn like maybe 50 yards 20 30 it's not even that far 30 50 yards pull up to a complete stop to let a coyote cross from the right to the left side of the road in front of me and fully no intention of killing a wild animal or messing my car up just pull up let the coyote walk across a lot of coyotes around here they're decently big they get plenty of trash out of the local restaurants garbage and stuff like that so they eat well a second coyote follows maybe three feet behind the first one okay not a big deal just kind of oh look a pack of coyotes is kind of what's going through my head you know I think I had some Van Halen on the radio or something just you know nothing very loud literally just enjoying then the third creature walks out a couple feet behind the second coyote I don't know what to say about it I just everything stopped my heart went cold my skin went numb I just I felt like the car might have blown up or something it was the same creature that I saw on I-16 a year and a half ago it was walking slowly it like you know the coyotes and this creature were just lumbering very very lazily across the road hot enough day they probably didn't feel like getting hot and sweaty and expending energy maybe they were on their way in town to find some garbage stick through or something like that but it was weird seeing this creature literally more than twice the size of a coyote following behind it the great thing was though I got a very clear image of the creature because it walked right in front of the car you know like if it had been any closer I wouldn't have been able to see its feet because it would be too close you know from the hood of the car it was peaceful it had its mouth open and it was panting but didn't have a tongue hanging out clearly see all of those teeth but they weren't like as wide open as when I saw the thing attacking the car they were its head was kind of down but head was heavy a very muscular neck had a very muscular body veins popping out like bulging sinewing muscles with no hair very clearly and having seen it the second time I can confirm that it was that naked mole rat rodent type skin it did not look like a naked cat bear mountain lion dog or anything the skin was not like that the skin was like a rat the skin had the same undulating kind of wrinkles that a rat would have around the ribs and stuff but the creature did not appear to be emaciated it appeared to be very well fed its muscles were massive this thing had the arms of a hairless gorilla it had biceps and triceps and wrist muscles and shoulder muscles that weren't giant and bulging they were like a chimp or a bonobo they were very sinewy and very large for being a creature that it wasn't you know like a super bodybuilder mr universe type thing it was just somebody who really built no fat on the body if you will the creature had prominent um vertebral spinal vertebra just enough that you can see the bumps going down its back um the creature The creature stomach ended at the rib cage in a very grotesque way. Like, you know, normally there's like some guts, you know, in a diaphragm at the bottom of the rib cage, even if the creature is emaciated, you still see a little bit of stomach leading up to an emaciated stomach area, but this one wasn't like that. The rib cage ended and it's like, it was kind of just a spine at that point with a little meat around it. And then when you reach the hip bone structure, there was like guts there, between those two leg things, it's weird. It's like it's stomach had like distended extremely down low. But I clearly remember the one on I-16 kind of having that shape too. The rear legs were unnatural. We'll return to those in just a moment. I want to spend some time talking about the rear legs and why I have gone through, spent the last few years researching and trying to find a reasonable explanation of what this thing is. But the legs is the big turnoff thing there. This creature had a head that was sort of resembled a possum or a rat in shape, but a little more rectangular like a baboon. It didn't have as prominent of a brow like a dog or a bear often has. Its eyes were set more on the side of its head instead of being, well, they weren't forward. They were set like a human or an ape. Our eyes are set forward, but they're kind of up high. It's not like a dog where they're set forward and they're looking down a snout or your eyes are on the side of it, or you got like a cow. It's like, in fact, a cat is not that far off from a human's face if you think about it. A cat's snout doesn't really protrude in front of it. It kind of goes down a little bit. But this thing did not have a cat's face. This thing had forward facing, like the same saber tooth kind of teeth. And again, I don't know if you guys are seeing me on my camera, but I'm gonna do this anyway. The teeth kind of protruded forward a little bit. And the bottom teeth did as well. So if the creature shut its mouth, the teeth wouldn't match. They would kind of go like that. Almost like a horse skeleton or something. The teeth kind of face forward. Again, sorry. Again, no incisors, no molars, just nothing but sharp teeth. A very crowded lower jaw that almost looked a little longer than the upper jaw, like maybe a slight underbite, very, very slight underbite. The creature's nose, and I could see that it had a nose this time because it was moving so slowly, was not a prominent nose like a dog or a cat or even an ape. It looked like a bat nose, like a vampire bat. Very squished, like nostrils squished back into its face. The nose existed too high on the skull. It wasn't down near the lip. It was up closer to where the eyes were, maybe about halfway up. And this thing didn't really have lips. It just had like bared gums and teeth, but it didn't look like it was pulling its lips back on purpose. It's like it's how it was made. In fact, I would say that the skin on this whole thing's head and neck almost looked like it was stretched over and kept a skeleton that was too small for it. It was grotesque, it was ugly. The ears kind of looked like a bat or a rat. They weren't very big, and they had a little structure to them, but they also had a little bit of a flop. Now, I will say very specifically that the ears were positioned on the side of the head like a rat. They were not up as high as a bear or a dog or a cat's ears. They were a little bit lower on the side of the skull. This thing did not have cheeks. It did not have like what animals have, I'm not sure what you call it, where the whiskers grow from, under the nose. There's kind of like some fatty lip area there, you know, that humans have, I guess. This thing didn't have that. It's just, I mean, as crazy as it sounds, if you look at Ardor's renderings of El Chupacabra, the mouth, this thing literally looked like. Symmetrical teeth. It's not like the El Chupacabra raw drawings, where they have like two teeth on the top and one on the bottom, but this thing had two teeth on the top and it had two fangs on the bottom, but like I said, all the teeth was very crowded, like rotty clout crowded. I could clearly see the bristles on this thing's back from the nape of its neck down through, halfway through its back, same as the other one. And it also had a slight tuft of bristles right underneath and behind where the armpit would be, but more like the side of the rib cage. So not like armpit hair, but more like, actually, if you look up a bear with mange on the internet, and there are some instances where you see animals with tuft of hair on the side, or a boar, like a wild boar or a pig with mange. And for a long time, I spent a long time trying to confirm that this was a bear or a boar with mange. However, all of these animals, even if they're emaciated, look at the webbing of their hips and the construction of their forearms and their rear legs. This was built nothing like that. It didn't have the type of shoulder blades and arm structure that dogs and bears have. It had the arm and structure of a gorilla, a very long forearm and bicep with heavy, big muscles. I've seen a lot of muscular pit bulls in my day. No dog looks like that. This thing had very large forepaws, for the point where I thought it might be a bear. And if you look at the way bear claws look, it didn't look like that. This thing had, I cannot remember if it had three or four digits on the front, it was hard to see. Three for sure. There might've been an extra digit up there. I did not see a, I'm not sure what they call it, like the little distigial toe that kind of hangs off the back of many animals from the backside of the wrist. I didn't see it like that. It was just all the claws on the front of the hand. The claws were large, like a bear and curved, but not as aggressively. And they didn't kind of pull back like bear claws do away from the paw. These claws were like clicking on the ground and kind of scraping and dragging as it moved. Like the paw didn't have much of a pad to it. One particular claw on each of the front feet was massive, like a velociraptor, but not as curvaceous. But it was a massive claw. Like you could, like a giant three-toed sloth or something like that. Like this huge claw that could be like, used to rip things apart or maybe climb trees or something, you know, not as curvaceous as a velociraptor's claw, but it literally looked like a Rexy Park claw put on the front foot. The back feet were equally clawed, just no massive claw. They had like normal, I guess, four, three or four, like, you know, normal looking claws. What if you can call them normal? Big, normal, evil looking claws. The claws were dark and a little bit translucent like keratin usually is. The spines, and I say spines, that go from the nape of the neck down halfway through the back and the little spines that were on each side of, or side that I saw, of the rib cage, you know, like the armpit hair that's down too much, was not hair. And that's something that very important. And I was not able to see it clearly in the first encounter when the creature was running. But now that this one's walking so very slowly, I could clearly see that what looked like hair was keratinous spines. They were big and thick enough that you could see light translucently passing through them. They looked more like short porcupine spines than anything else, but they were thick. Probably about as big as round as your finger. Your pointer finger, not your middle finger. These spines were large. These tuft of spines on the side of the creature was kind of the same way. It's like a small layer of porcupine spines that sort of laid up against each other, almost like hair, or a tuft of hair, but spines. They weren't striped like a porcupine. They're just clear, grayish, clearish grayish, kind of yellowish, translucent, ugly looking, nasty things. Same color as the toenails, I noticed. The eyes were red and had a bit of a glow to them. They just didn't look angry. They were just kind of red and dull, like a lab rat. The rear legs of this creature were not right for any creature that exists upon the planet Earth. Most animals tend to have a long metatarsal. The metatarsal is the bone that we humans have in our wrists between our wrists to our knuckles. We have really short metatarsals. Most animals have much longer metatarsals and they get that dog leg thing going on in the back. Now, we'll come back to this in a second. Take note that most animals do not have long metatarsals on their front legs. They have a sort of regular bicep, and then whatever the tricep exists, I don't have to name that bone, but that particular part's a bit longer than they have, kind of like a semi-normal wrist can sort of walk on their toes. The metatarsals on this animal on all four legs were abnormally long. If you look up, not a panic fox, what's that thing called? I think it's called a maned wolf, and it looks like a fox that exists in South America, and it has ridiculously long metatarsals, especially on its back leg. It's just got really long, blanky, weird-looking legs. This thing kind of had metatarsals like that. Now, when animals usually have long metatarsals, like looking at the back leg of a dog, you usually see a medium-sized femur, which is the hip to knee, and you see a medium-sized, smallest sort of tibula fibula, which is the two bones, which in our, as a human, that's your calf, but in a dog, that's from the knee to that backwards ankle bone, and then from that backwards ankle bone to the toes are the metatarsals, like, again, that's our wrist. They have longer wrists than we do. This thing's metatarsals were as long as a dog's, but its tibula fibula, tibia and fibula, excuse me, and its femur lengths were also equally long, almost like a frog or something. So this thing had a hip to knee as long as a human, and it had a knee to ankle as long as a human, a need to ankle as long as a human, but it also had an ankle to, yeah, ankle to knuckle, I think is what I need to say. Ankle to knuckle as long as a dog. Now, I know a lot about animals. I'm not a zoologist, but I've got the internet at my, you know, fingertips, and I love animals. So, you know, it's not like I know that, oh, there's like four animals down there, there's thousands of species. Like, you know, probably no more animals than most people do. Spend the time looking stuff up. I've never found anything that has those kinds of dimensions in that skeletal structure on the planet Earth ever. It's unnatural. However, I didn't know what to think of it. Like I said, I thought I just saw some critter. I've been calling it the critter for years until I started reading more stories about dog man. Now, I've had a few experiences, a couple of camping experiences where there might've been a Bigfoot around, you know? My brother and I went on a camping experience in 2016 and had the rocks thrown at our campsite and grunts and some weird sounds. And you know, this wasn't a Bigfoot situation. This was a creature that seemed to maybe exist in the wild, doesn't really seem to be territorial, maybe, or maybe is. I don't know. It's just the thing was just running. It was fast. It was so fast. It was so powerful, so grotesque looking. It didn't look real. It literally looked like a werewolf. So anyway, finding out about dog man, come to find out, seems like most sightings of dog men deal with a creature that has abnormally long metatarsals, abnormally long femurs, abnormally long tibia fibulas. Also noting that the metatarsals on the front feet were also abnormally long, not as long as the rear leg, but longer than an animal should be for having a bicep and a forearm that's already long. It'd be like taking a gorilla and having a weird long wrist on a gorilla. The rear legs, oh, this is interesting too. When it walked slowly, I noticed that front and rear legs were all towed in a little bit. Toes were towed in. It seemed to have a very difficult time walking on all fours. It walked like a coyote, like any four-legged animal. But the insane length of its rear legs, it was loping and lumbering, and the rear legs were just having a really hard time walking with the front legs. It was like they were just too long. There's too much length. It had to stretch them behind itself just a little bit to be able to move forward, but it's like it's hip to knee joint. It would bring it up under itself like a human does. Like most animals, that hip to knee joint kind of goes straight down so that way the dog leg can shoot out backwards. This thing was like watching a human walk around on all fours. It was gross. It was weird. I didn't like it. And in fact, when it was running, I remember that too. Someone had asked me, did its back legs come forward like a cheetah or a rabbit or something to cross with the front legs? Like most four-legged animals do when they're running. Like a greyhound. It's a bit of a leap, right? Involved in the way these run. This thing's forearms kind of ran like a running gorilla. Like it ran, the forearms kind of scooping the ground together, but when you watch a gorilla charging, that's what the forearms look like. Kind of like a little bit of like a human type forearm with a flat shoulder blade kind of like churning the ground as it moves forward versus like a dog or a horse or something which body is built with a very vertical shoulder blade and it's very, very easy for them to trot and run. The back legs didn't move right. The back legs did not come forward all the way when it's running and they almost looked more like it was just leaping like a bullfrog over and over again. Like the back legs springboarded as it moved forward. It moved unnaturally and it moved unnaturally fast as a result. When it was walking slow, it's like it was drunk. It just had too much leg. Or it's almost like in the way it kind of shifted and its joints would kind of shift and fall when it walked. It's almost like, man, this thing's got arthritis. You know, like it looks like it's painful for it to be walking and moving. And in fact, it looks like it was huffing and puffing to keep up with the coyotes who were having a leisurely stroll, but it was not attacking the coyote as it was walking with them in peace which is really weird. Okay, so that's what led my search into looking for bears with mange, coyotes with mange, you know, wild boars with mange, anything that has sort of that weird kind of look. I haven't been able to find anything except for more dog man descriptions that match what I saw. It seems like many dog man descriptions involve hairy creatures, but sometimes they don't. Just the other day, I was listening to a Donovan dread talking about, of course, unfortunately with them on the story, so I can't verify it, but it was talking about three teenage hikers a few years ago who were somewhere in the Yellowstone kind of area, I recall greatly, and came across one of these creatures or one buddy said, oh my gosh, look left. What's that over there? And they saw what they described to be in their description, a hairless skin creature that matches the description of what I was looking at, rectangle type face, you know, lots of teeth, violent, glowing red eyes. And the thing that stood out to me and the reason I'm kind of paraphrasing this little story by all means, go to YouTube and watch some Donovan dread. It's awesome, watch it. Mr. Bollins, that's up to you too. But they said that it had very long claws on its front legs that were able to wrap completely around a tree. Many dog man stories involve people wondering if these things are tree dwellers. Like I said, the claw on the front feet, I wouldn't necessarily equate to an attack claw. That comes from that whole Jurassic Park 1993, saying it's like, oh, the raptors use their claws to rip people over. I mean, if you go and look into what paleontologists think now, we actually think that these dinosaurs use those claws to climb trees or something of the sort. Very likely climbing trees or hanging onto branches or something. It has to do with the muscular structure and the tendons on those claws. They're not designed to rip and handle that kind of stress. They are positioned almost like if you cock your point, you make a crook with your pointer finger and cock it back, your pointer finger won't have any strength that way, but you can hang it on a little curtain rod or something and it's a perfect hanger. So I guess at this point, I tend to want to break off into speculation. And I guess the facts are, I've seen something twice. I've confirmed that it was the same thing. Seeing it the first time, I had a witness. I'm not on speaking terms necessarily with my ex, but if it were necessary, if someone wanted someone to corroborate my story, I'm sure that we could reach out to her through LinkedIn. She's a professional and she would corroborate. Yeah, we saw something. We don't know what it was, but we saw something weird. The second time I saw it was like proving it to myself that I didn't dream the whole thing up. Like, oh my God, there it is. And it's the same thing. I'm not saying it was the same exact creature, although some people have speculated, oh, it tracked you, which scares the bejesus out of me. A lot of people speculate that they're demonic. I think I used the word demonic when I had originally posted my story in one of the Facebook groups that sparks some of this interest, like the first public telling of my story, I guess. But I don't know that it was demonic because the first time it seemed demonic, it's like when it turned and looked at me, I feel like it smiled at me. I feel like its mouth was already open. I feel like it threw up the corners of its mouth and was like, I'm gonna get you. I was really frightening. But the second creature I saw was walking peacefully with a group of coyotes. And I don't know if that had anything to do with me or not. A lot of people say, oh, these things only let you see them when they want to be seen because they can do camouflage and all this, that, and the other. And I'm like, well, but maybe if it's a naturally occurring existing animal, you know, that day it was just on its own agenda and it could give a rat's patoot, whether or not I could see it. Maybe it was a peaceful one because it hung out with coyotes. Maybe it was a werewolf and everyone would become human again. I don't know. Some of that stuff seems far fetched to me. I'm the kind of person who tends to speculate more on the side of explainable science. A lot of speculation that these things are some kind of government experiment that's gotten loose. And I've read enough of those stories to think that they're actually plausible. But that's my opinion. The one thing I can say is that it's a real thing. It's not something I've made up about some kind of like wild, crazy creature. And I think a number of people believe my story. Fortunately, there is a lady who saw my public post and social media about it and reached out to me and said, I'm a sketch artist. And I specialize in doing, you know, descriptive sketches and stuff like that. And she asked if I would have a conversation with her, which was like a two hour conversation. She asked all these crazy details about what the thing looked like. We went through like pictures that people have drawn, pictures of real animals, you know, pictures are drawn to real animal skeletal structures and stuff to try to talk about the specifics of it. And she just told me last week, she's just getting to start to get to work on that sketch. So I'm really excited about it. I don't know if that's something she'll be able to ready to show anybody anytime soon. She warned me that we'll probably have to do multiple revisions because her drawing's probably not going to look like what I saw. I have a fear that it will. I have a fear that what she saw and what she's going to draw is going to look like what I saw. But it may be a little off and if it's off, we'll keep working on it. But I'm excited about that because I'm not an artist and I didn't take a picture or a video of it. I couldn't have. So it would be really neat to at least have something to sell people. This is really what I saw. This is what it looked like. I feel like you can look up renderings of El Chupa Cabras, which I will be honest with you, are the most closest thing to what I saw. And I called it Chupa for a long time, a critter or a chupa, because of that reason. A lot of people say El Chupa Cabras aren't very big. This thing was huge. So I don't know. But a lot of the time those artists rendering show these demonic creatures with blood pouring out of their mouths or slinking through the night. Since I saw the creature doing something kind of evil and dangerous, but then the second time I saw the creature literally existing in the world, like a ladybug exists on a plant, we're hoping that drawing it that way might bring some realism to it and maybe help people do a little bit more recognition. I can clearly see the creature in my head. The first time it was absolutely frightening. But the second time it was like scientific, like, oh, that's what it looks like. It's like going to the zoo and finally getting to see the elephant. You've seen it on TV all along, but when you finally see it in real life, you're like, oh, that's how big it is. You know what I mean? And so I don't know. I don't know that I would wish it upon myself to see it again, because if there is some kind of evil aspect to it, then oh Lord, I don't want it following me around. If it's some kind of creepy government experiment that tracks people, I continue to have encounters where I have not seen what's encountering me, but there's things on our property late at night. There's stuff following me around from time to time. I've seen some other stuff that's not explainable, unfortunately, and I won't go into that right now. I don't know if it counts as dogma or not, but I have a suspect feeling that a lot of it's connected. I mentioned earlier that I've had a couple of big foot experiences, and I can honestly say that the big foot experience I had or the two big foot experiences I had were not similar experiences. You know, this was not a heavy footfall creature. I would say this is a creature it looks like. It would be very light on its toes if it really wanted to run. It's a creature designed to move very fast and to cover great distances. It was not a creature designed to walk across the street. So to me, that's plausibility for like some dogma or something crazy like that. It didn't make any sounds that I could hear, so I can't say anything to that effect. I wish I were a gifted painter or something because I could paint it. The image of that thing has been burning in my head and I've been looking for it ever since. I guess I'll let me instead. Would you have any questions, I guess, as to any more details or?

Brandon: Couple things I was thinking about while you're talking. Like when you first started describing the image that popped in my head, do you remember the original Ghostbusters where the thing like goes or was or whatever is like the little dog demonic lick of things that they turned into. Zool. Zool, yeah. Like when you described its face, that's kind of what I was thinking. Zool coming out of the refrigerator. Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking when you're describing its face. Was it something similar to that or? Yeah, I've got my computer in front of me. I'm gonna pull that critter up. I've seen that movie a million times, but I can't remember what it looks like. Just like the body structure and the colors and everything else, muscle tones, like that's the first thing I thought of was like Zool from the original Ghostbusters.

Warren: But. Oh my God. Yeah, but without the horns, I'm looking at it now. That's a really ugly critter. Now the eyes, maybe though, now that I'm pulling up some pictures of Zool, Zool looks real bulldoggy. Yeah. I would say maybe the mouth structure reminded me of that, but Zool, and that's, Zool is spelled Z-U-U-L for anyone who's listening. It's an interesting thing to look up. If you notice looking at Zool on the internet, he's got prominent eyebrows. And of course he has like some kind of demonic horns on the top of his head. And also the lower and upper fangs are the same size. What I saw had much larger upper fangs, no horns on the head and no detectable eyebrow. Like if you look up a picture of a baboon, like a regular baboon, I would say that the, no, no, not a baboon. That's not a big man, girl. That's not a big one with the blue things on its head. Not even like that. It's like its face was oddly smooth. Its head was more like a rat. The skin wasn't like that Zool. That Zool thing's kind of got like some kind of wrinkly looking skin, like there's skin folds kind of hanging off of it. I want to be very clear that the creature I saw had no fat in its skin. What skin there was, looked like it was undulating. In other words, skin that's not attached to the body, like a dog or a rat. Like as humans, our skin's very attached to our joints. It doesn't move around, but like a dog, you can pet their fur and their skin will move all over the place. But it was undulating, didn't really have wrinkles. It's like the skin hugged the muscles in the sinews, but didn't have like the fatty overlay rolls on the shoulder or I think the best, most specific thing I can talk about is like, if you look up a bear or a puma, a cougar, a mountain lion, and you can find pictures of them on the internet with mange and they're pretty freaky looking because they have no hair and they look outrageous. But if you look at the webbing on their hip between their stomach going down to their knees, their legs, bones are kind of webbed. Like even when they're emaciated, there's a little bit of webbing. Humans don't really have webbing right there, right? Like our legs are kind of like little frog legs. They just kind of like sprout out of the bottom of our bodies and we don't really have much webbing between our legs or from our legs to our torso. Does that make sense? So this creature didn't have like that. And that to me, it's like every animal kind of has that like the lizards and while not lizards so much, I mean, I guess like reptiles actually don't have that, do they? I really wish I could have something that I could recommend looking up on the internet so you get a good idea, but I may have to wait for that sketch. Like I said, I've looked up so many images, but there's always a few aspects. It's like, no, that's too much. That's too horrific. It's too off. You know, this thing's got massive claws or massive teeth or demonic horns or, you know, like blood gushing out of every orifice or something like that. And like, you know, like the creature I saw the second time was, it was just a critter. I mean, if it was nice, you would have, I wouldn't have pet it. It didn't feel comfortable to pet. The best artist rendering probably so far that looks the most like what I saw on the internet would actually be an El Chupacabra image that is, I can actually tell you where to go find it on the right. Pretty horrific image. Most El Chupacabras look like deformed coyotes. This thing didn't have that much of a doggy face. And I think that's like important. Well, dang, normally it's like one of the first things that pops up when I search for it.

Brandon: When you first saw it, when you're driving down the road, you say you're going about 82 miles an hour. That thing was keeping pace and then kept running along with you when you sped up. I'm trying to wrap my mind around it because I don't know of any type of animal that could run that fast. It would be anything natural. And from everything that you described, it's clearly not a natural animal.

Warren: There's one animal on the planet that can run that fast, but it can only do it for extremely short bursts. And its running style is not the same as the way this creature is running. It's a cheetah. You know there was a cheetah in North America, but it was in the saber tooth era, like well over 10,000 years ago, supposedly. We don't know how fast that cheetah could have run. And in fact, there were two breeds of that cheetah. One was pretty large and muscular. I think that was one that was on the Cali side of things. The fact that it was running so fast was frightening. I would say that when I first saw it, its head was level with my head in the car. Like I said, I stomped on the gas when I saw it. When it started moving over, I stomped on the gas. And in that short five or six second period of time, gained 15 to 20 miles an hour. It sped up with the car. And like I said, its shoulder contacted up near the front wheel of the car. So as I was speeding up, it accelerated faster than me. I can't fully record my head around that either. Like if it was running 82 miles an hour, I would have a sense that it could accelerate at a faster pace than a V8. Especially already going that quickly.

Brandon: That's just kind of how I was thinking about it too. Cause I've had my own encounters with some stuff that I can't explain. And the speed of a creature being able just to keep along with a vehicle of that speed, it's just kind of like mind blowing to think that like there's something out there that could outrun a car. Like it's just-

Warren: Also you seen like a Greyhound bucket, right? Like on television, like they just go for the little rabbit, right? You know how they're kind of straining, like they're going for it. This thing that tried that.

Brandon: Yeah, I think it just said it kind of like looked over and you looked at it and looked back at you and had like almost like a smirky smile to its face. It almost comes off as like, it's obviously intelligent. Like it's playing with me. Yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting at is like, it's one of those things like it's screwing around with you. Like, hey, I'm gonna keep up with you.

Warren: I had told, you know, one Native American person was speaking to me and, you know, of course they were thinking Wendigo and stuff like that, but they were saying, you know, it's very likely that the evil or the anger and animosity that was existing and the energy that was created between you and your partner at the time, because it was a bad fight. You know, we were yelling that it attracted the creature and that's assuming the creature is supernatural in some way or form, which I'm not sold on. But I mean, it's like maybe we put out the scent and it wanted us.

Brandon: So there are some stories like with skinwalkers too, where they claim that once you see one, you'll see it more than once because it kind of like gets the scent of you. And like all these instances you had, you've seen it again, it could have been the same creature. Like that's the old like Native American stories or whatever. Like once you see a skinwalker, that skinwalker will always be following you.

Warren: That's worried me because like, you know, you're my pet dog could be it. You know what I mean? But, I mean, I don't know, you know, I mean, I've had an interesting life. That's one of the reasons I've chosen to be a musician for my career because I, you know, the daily run of my life is not normal. So I feel like I've had a number of different, I mean, I've seen some strange cloud formation things that I don't even want to explain right now. I don't think I'm ready to tell that story, but it's pretty much a UFO story. I just don't know that I believe what I saw yet. There wasn't anybody there to confirm it with me. I guess the one thing that makes me brave enough to tell this story is that when I saw it the first time, there was someone with me and that person is someone who, I mean, one of the reasons we broke up is because my head's in the clouds and hers was not. You know, she was no nonsense. You know, I grew up in church. She was like, you're kind of insane for believing in stuff that you can't see. But she wouldn't, you know, even on the day we broke up, I was like, you know, you saw that thing, right? She was like, yep, don't want to talk about it.

Brandon: That's actually the experience that I had is the same situation. Someone else saw it too, but no. Were you in a car as well? Yep. I haven't really got into details on mine. I kind of haven't really shared it with anyone. I might do it on a future episode, but offline, we can talk about it. But if it was just me listening to someone tell a story of my own story, I wouldn't believe it either because it just kind of sounds like not true. Like there's no way that could be. But often to have to like actually see it and experience it. It's just like, how do you explain that? I've looked to every possible explanation that I can because I'm very like a science based person, I guess. And like I can't, I can't explain what I've seen. I've looked at everything up. I've checked everything I can. It's just like, this doesn't make any sense. So I've got my own explanation of what it could be, but my explanation still doesn't make any sense to myself and like the person that I also experienced. Go ahead.

Warren: I was going to say, did you see what you saw clearly enough to see that it wasn't built like a common animal?

Brandon: What I actually saw that was actually in the middle of the road moving, it did not have like a distinct figure. You know how those car dealerships will have like those blow up things that kind of like sway back and forth in the wind? Yeah. That's how its body was moving. But it was taller than the vehicle I was in. But like it was, it almost looked like a person wrapped in a cloak walking down the street drunk, like stumbling around, like its body was just moving unnaturally. And I was driving a 98 Ford Explorer and it was taller than the Explorer when I had to swerve to miss it because the guy in front of me, he swerved to miss it too. And I was like, what is this guy doing? So I worked with the guy we got off work and he was freaked out by it. But then after we went back and looked some stuff over, there's more to it than that, but I guess I'll talk to you more about it later. But he got to the point where he won't talk to like me about it. He said if anyone brings it up, he'll just deny it. So that's why I've never really.

Warren: I think that's a big problem. I think a lot of people have seen stuff and they're afraid to talk about it because they think they'll be labeled as crazy.

Brandon: Yeah. And that's what, cause I brought it up at work before and he just, he didn't want to talk about it after that either. He was just like, nope.

Warren: I mean, it's like we need pictures is what we need. We need like video footage. We need something that like people can believe. And I agree with you. I think they're intelligent enough to avoid the camera. They know what they're doing. What do you think they are? How to avoid the camera. I, while I think some stuff naturally occurs, I think the most plausible explanation, and you probably come across this yourself, was the Reddit post. And if you go looking for it, there's a Reddit post out there where an anonymous government worker wrote an article saying I used to work for the CIA or something. And I'm very, very much paraphrasing. You should look it up and read it if you haven't. You should, and I used to work for the government. And now that I'm out, I want to spill the beans on some things I can't, and the paper says like I can't tell you all the details because if I tell you too many details, they'll remove this paper. So everything I'm going to write sounds like a conspiracy and that's the only way I can get it released by eliminating certain details. So this person goes on to talk about working in facilities and the government where I guess they worked in one particular facility and I want to say it was Virginia. Anyway, they said they were working in these facilities, and the government, a, and we kind of are aware of this, you know, MK ultra and everything we started mind control experiments post World War Two. You can look up as 1964 or five or six, I want to say it's 1966, the CIA was ex was successful in mind controlling a woman to shoot a man with a fake gun, but she did it, and a lot of people can speculate on that and everything So I kind of look at it with seriousness, because this, you know, people who are kind of on this thing in this particular Reddit post I'm talking about says look, we got really good at mind control in the early 60s. And we've gotten really good at it, because we've had 60 years to perfect it. So now we're insanely good at it, but we don't waste time controlling your mind because you're a peon. So what we've done is we've genetically modified and mutated some kind of animals some kind of chimeras that the government has created for military or weaponized purposes. They are highly intelligent and emotional, maybe not as much as a human but they're intelligent. Just like the velociraptors in that new Jurassic Park movie that was obviously very awful that came out and I just watched it. It was bad. But like there's a scene where the guys on the motorcycle and two like Raptors are like mind controlled you know they've been trained. You know the lady shines a little red dot on the dude so they attack him you know what I mean like attack dogs or something. But, um, so this government worker said well these creatures are controllable, and we can get them to do what we want to do and they're smart enough to figure out problems problem solve. They don't have any language but they can read. You know they can't make any noises that result in language they don't have the ability to do that but they're intelligent enough to understand it. They've apparently repeat times of the last couple decades they've gotten out, and they've escaped because they don't like being in captivity they're apparently extremely violent they have angry violent tendencies, which either stems from their genetic predisposition or it's because they're in captivity and they don't want to be and they know they're in captivity. This particular, you know reddit post says that they've gotten out, and for the last few decades they're literally been werewolf hunters running around the America, working for CIA or whatever, shooting these things as they find it because they're dangerous. And they still breed them. But they just try their best not to let them out. He described the creatures as being canine in form, but much much larger. And he did not describe the creatures in detail he's like they're just cannot inform they're very large are highly intelligent. And, you know, I think it's about all he says to their physical descriptions, but a few of us, you know, offline talks have talked and said you know do you think there's any plausibility did this explanation and many of us agree that from a scientific perspective demons from the pit of hell doesn't make a lot of sense, but a genetically mutated modified animal that has been bred to be intelligent is is plausible. A government program that has had 606070 years to perfect mind control is not only plausible there's actually proof. You dig into Korea, Vietnam and everything that happened after all that, you know, MK ultra to which I didn't know much about but obviously was stranger things coming out like I kind of got into.

Brandon: So they use the government had a way of making a weapon into something they would. So it wouldn't surprise me that they were sticking around with mind control and genetic engineering and whatever else to alter the DNA of a creature just to weaponize it because why wouldn't they. had a way of making a weapon into something they would. So it wouldn't surprise me that they were dicking around with mind control and genetic engineering and whatever else to alter the DNA of a creature just to weaponize it, because why wouldn't they?

Warren: And look at interbreeding too. We've also seen that some creatures in the last 100 years have been able to breed and come up with like, you know, like ligers type, you know, ligers and tigons and like crosses between wolf and coyote. There was that weird thing that was shot up in Montana a while back and they don't know what it was. And if you really look at the dead animal pictures, you're thinking, man, that looks like a wolf, but it looks like a bear. It's like, is that a cross between a wolf and a bear? You know, that's got to be scientifically impossible. But if we can find literal calm areas that exist naturally, then who's to say that, you know, science and labs and everything could direct that process into what they want? Um, in fact, it would be a lot easier, wouldn't it? Um, we can, we were already doing genetic selection for humans. Now, if you have the money, you can go in there and select what color eyes you want your child to have, you know, just cost the pretty penny. I've heard some stuff

Brandon: about stuff like that. And I'm not a religious person or anything like that, but to me it's the sense of, if you're going that route, you're basically trying to, you're trying to

Warren: play God. Yeah. I mean, look at, look at every, you can look at Resident Evil, almost every zombie horror man movie and all kinds of stuff that, you know, we've come up in pop culture of the last, you know, 50 to a hundred years. And it seems like one of human's biggest fears is that we will try to play God in, in orchestrate our demise. Um, I mean, stuff sounds crazy, but look like the, the AI we have now is more intelligent than Skynet ever would have been, you know, like, um, look at what Elon Musk talks about in his concerns about like the ability and the power that exists in artificial intelligence. Now, you know, he's openly admitted it's too far. We let it go too far. We have no control over it. It will do it at once at this point. Um, I've been making artwork with that. Say what?

Brandon: I've been doing artwork with the AI apps or whatever. It's weird. Just tell it something that it makes, it makes paintings and photos and all sorts of stuff. So if that technology is out there just to the public, just think about what we don't know about that's out

Warren: there. And I'm sure that stuff has kept from us. Um, you know, I mean, UFOs is a completely different, um, you know, topic altogether, but I myself have had a very strange experience and seen like the triangles moving across the sky, the triangle lights and all kinds of weird stuff. Not, not anything where I'm like, I've seen an alien or a spaceship, but like something's up there moving around, you know, like that ain't right. Um, you know, but there could be possible explanations for that too. It doesn't have to be aliens. There's an older gentleman who lives in our town. He's retired. He's like in his nineties and you know, everyone's like, oh, he's crazy. You know, he's one of those, there's a Nazi base on the moon people. But I remember someone saying something about UFOs and he was like, oh, it's a mole. There are no aliens here. We just developed anti-grab technology 50 years ago and they kept it from the public. Well, I mean, that sounds crazy, but that's a lot more plausible, right? Like to think that, Hey, maybe there was a technology and it's just been kept secret. So I think like, for me, having seen the creature twice, haven't experienced the first time in a situation where I felt like it knew what was going on. Um, and then the scene, the second time that it literally looked like a grotesque creature that maybe if you took ever read the Island of Dr. Moreau, you know, literally, but I know you're aware of it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've actually never seen the movies. I read the book and the book is horrifying. The book is really horrifying. I got no way to write. Um, but it's about vivisection. It's about somebody taking animals and splicing together in the late 1800s. Now I read this book in high school. So I did a lot of research back then, or the 2000s high school, um, and found out that vivisection was a real thing. People really did it. They'd like take the back leg off a cat, put a frog leg on it, see if it, if it, you know, stay alive for a time. Sometimes they would always die, obviously, but I mean, you know, you grow ears on rats now, you know what I mean? And it's a human ear. So maybe with stem cell research and genetic modification and, you know, control over things, maybe like environment and diet and stuff like that, then you mix in with whatever technologies we're not aware of. Like, you know, who knows, they probably have all kinds of sensors and things to do things. Um, I can easily see that. Now, if I was an intelligent creature created by the government and had to grow up in a cage, like 11 and stranger things, just like 11, the character of stranger things, I would want out. So if I was in the chupacabra or whatever these things are, I would get out and I would run and I would stay in the forest. Um, this is farfetched too, but another not, maybe not so plausible explanation, but my own dad was like, he's a big foot guy. He's always, he's never had like an experience, but he wants to, so he's just been working his whole life. You know? Um, he was like, uh, what if it's a dinosaur? And I was like, what? And he was like, yeah, what if it's like a dinosaur and they lived in caves or something and do global warming or something like that, it like, they're coming out. So, I mean, there could be a natural explanation that doesn't involve conspiracy, you know, I, I've actually heard some stuff from people

Brandon: kind of like that with the whole cave thing, but it's a, almost like a hollow earth type situation. Like there's an actual whole thing under the whole thing under the planet that we don't know about that other animals have lived in and everything out. Now they come out from the cave systems and it's again, one of those other stories. That's kind of like

Warren: a conspiracy too. Yeah. Cause it's like all the government knows about it. Yeah. What was that guys? Was it Admiral Hood? Was that his name? The guy who like flew the airplane Admiral Bird in Antarctica? Bird. Thank you. Yeah. Bird. And he was supposed to have discovered a Garth or whatever. Um, that'll be a topic for a future episode. Some people say Antarctica is melting, you know, and the Arctic melts and things come out of the ice. You know, I mean, I don't know. This thing didn't look rotten. It was healthy and alive.

Brandon: So, um, I think we're gonna have to wrap it up here, but, uh, I do have a couple more questions. So if you were to ever see it again, was that something you would want to see? Yes. I would have a camera at hand. I would hope I'd be within the safety of a vehicle or whatever and not on my own and I hope I'll be able to get it on film. Um, when you saw it the second time, like did it, did you feel like you were in danger? I know you're in a vehicle, but did it feel like you were threatened at all? Like it, did it look at you like to where you know, and that's the

Warren: thing. The second time it was possibly even oblivious to my presence. You know what I mean? Like the second time was like, oh my God. And I'm trying to rip the phone out of my pocket before it disappears into the bushes, you know, to get a picture or a video or something of it, which I didn't, um, wasn't able to get in time. They weren't out that long, but it, no, it didn't acknowledge me. It wasn't chasing coyotes. It's like, man, that's a really mean looking creature, but it's behaving peacefully enough. You know what I mean? Like, look, I'm sharks are scary, but you know, if a shark was in a tank being peaceful, I might be tempted to put my hand on its back and feel its skin. You see what I'm saying? Um, yeah, I w I do hope to see it again. I just hope I can do it in a safe way. Um, it seems like people don't ever see them in good situations. I honestly believe that the ones that go out

Brandon: searching for this stuff are usually the ones that don't end up seeing the stuff, but the ones that don't really think much of it, they're the ones that have the most encounters because it's like, when you're out looking for it, why is it going to come out? If it knows you're out there, but if you're not expecting something or you're just out and about, and it just so happens to come across, it's just like, there it is. So like, because I've talked with other folks and I've talked to people to go out and they do the paranormal ghost hunting and everything else. And that's another discussion, but I feel like they're looking for everything that they can determine to be like supernatural. Like, oh, this meter move this and that. Well, there's also natural explanations as to why it could be doing that. But I also know people that don't look at anything. They don't believe any of that stuff and they have it for experiences. And the ones that do believe in it and go out looking for it all the time. So it's just kind of just weird in general, the whole

Warren: situations like your story, any type of, yeah. I mean, any type of encounter I've personally ever had has always been, my mind was on something else and I was busy doing something else. You know what I mean? Like, and not thinking about anything like that or looking for it always caught on a wares. I feel like that's when people's minds are

Brandon: most open to see that. And I know it's, some people have theories that like, oh, this parallel universe and something comes in from that side. We ended up seeing it, like our paths crossed from the multiverse or whatever the marvels made that everyone thinks exists now and everything else like that too. Like there's just all sorts of conspiracies and mindsets that people have from all these theories for these creatures. And it's just kind of like, well, I'm more based in fact and reality. And I know what I saw. I can't explain it. You know what you saw? Can't really explain it. Like it wasn't something that just popped out of nowhere and then just straight up disappeared again. Like it was just there. So it's like, how do you explain that to someone that doesn't want to listen or doesn't believe that? I found a, I'm going to send this to

Warren: you in Facebook, but I did find like a little drawing on the internet that to me that to me looks like very close, the back legs aren't right. The back leg was like a dog's leg in this drawing, but if you look at the head and the underbite and the way the nose is kind of almost not there, it's like, it's sort of reminiscent of what I saw. I think it's the best thing I've seen, but like I said, I'll send you that probably.

Brandon: But yeah, I think we're gonna have to wrap it up because we're about out of time on this one too. So I'd love to have you back on, talk some more. If you have any more encounters, once you get there.

Warren: I would say, yeah, I was gonna say, if I could get that artist drawing, that might be cool. And I could ask Isabella, I think she lives up in Massachusetts or something. She's just somebody off the internet. I can ask her if maybe she might be interested a part of that. Maybe we could help you like get a couple of us on there and maybe just kind of talk about the drawing or something like that. Yeah, love that. Maybe I'll see another one, I doubt it. I feel like I'm looking for it too hard, but. I think now that you're looking for it,

Brandon: it's gonna be hard to find it. Yeah, probably so.

Warren: I mean, I get wrapped up in my world all the time. Being a musician, running bands and stuff, I'm oblivious to things going around me sometimes. And I think that's why I continue to hear and see things that I just haven't seen anything tangible. But you know, the creepy feelings, the birds all going quiet in the forest kind of thing from time to time, it happens a little too often.

Brandon: Some people are just in tune to it. That's kind of what I went back to with the whole skinwalker vibe is sometimes those things just follow you, so.

Warren: Well, I'm gonna start making a habit of listening to your podcast to see what you come up with.

Brandon: So this is basically gonna be like the second episode. So we're still in our infancy, but. Oh, very nice, got a good start. So with that said, I do appreciate you having on and look forward to hearing more from you. All right, yes sir. Thank you, Mr. Brannon, you have a good day. Thanks, you too. And that's our show, everyone. I'd like to thank our guest Warren for coming out and sharing his experience. And if you've had a personal encounter that you'd like to share, please contact the podcast. I'd love to have you on. You can send an email to tinfoiltellspodcastatgmail.com. Again, that's tinfoiltellspodcastatgmail.com, and we can get something scheduled to have you out on the show. Thanks for listening. Good night, everyone.